Curse

Improvavel · Sep 11, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Again - it doesn't mean the build is worth running.

Second is normal mode.

Noone saying it doesn't work. Just saying it isnt necessary and its weak or we all woud be running 55.

Moloch Vein · Sep 11, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

If zealous was their best friend, every Warrior/Dervish/Assassin/any melee be carrying one, if they were so good.

Every good melee player that is in need of said energy does.

Improvavel · Sep 11, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Every good melee player that is in need of said energy does.

Yep. One of my weapon sets is always a zealous.

Zodiac Meteor · Sep 11, 2008, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Again - it doesn't mean the build is worth running.

Second is normal mode.

Noone saying it doesn't work. Just saying it isnt necessary and its weak or we all woud be running 55.

1) I don't have HM in factions yet. The farthest I got in factions is Jade Flats for FFFing.

2) "All would be running 55. It doesn't mean the build is worth running." There are places were 55's are useless. There is a simple solution. Don't go 55. Run SS or MM. This build isn't meant for everything, like MM isn't meant for everything. Just when it's helpful, run it.
Do you honestly think that this build is meant for every mission or quest? If it's helpful, run it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

Unless you have IAS or hit multiple targets zealous is kind of useless other than that.

If your a barrager, go zealous. If your a broad head arrow, with no IAS or arrow volley don't go zealous. It's good/bad in some situations, but better in others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

SPAM!!! [blood is power] on everyone, healers, spell casters, tankers, Togo, everyone!

Sense [blood is power] is your best support spell and you can cast it constantly. Why not abuse it? It can only be applied once. When your done casting it on everyone it would be about 5 seconds. Then reapply your healing spells for obvious reasons. Then recast it on everyone. Why only use it on casters when you can use it on everyone.

Improvavel · Sep 11, 2008, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

If your a barrager, go zealous. If your a broad head arrow, with no IAS or arrow volley don't go zealous. It's good/bad in some situations, but better in others.

Sense [blood is power] is your best support spell and you can cast it constantly. Why not abuse it? It can only be applied once. When your done casting it on everyone it would be about 5 seconds. Then reapply your healing spells for obvious reasons. Then recast it on everyone. Why only use it on casters when you can use it on everyone.

First rangers dont need zealous bow. They run 14 Expertise. Thats their energy management. Even hero rangers can run their builds with 14 expertise.

Likewise, warriors form of resource management is adrenaline,Swapping ur damage weapon for a zealous if u need energy works wonders.

Dervishes have mysticism, some skills like attackers insight and again weapon swaps.

Assassins have critical strikes and weapon swaps.

Paragons have adrenaline, leadership and again weapon swaps.

What I ask is why should someone run BiP, other than because they think its fun?

If I'm necro and playing H/H, why should I run Bip isntead of something else, like a curse necro or an Assassin Promise?

it can be fun, it can be different, but that doesn't mean its more desirable.

Zodiac Meteor · Sep 12, 2008, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

"Every Class has energy management"
What I ask is why should someone run BiP, other than because they think its fun?
If I'm necro and playing H/H, why should I run Bip isntead of something else, like a curse necro or an Assassin Promise?
it can be fun, it can be different, but that doesn't mean its more desirable.

Yes, every class has energy management. But it doesn't mean they never run low.
I'm not saying you should run it. I'm not saying it's the best. I'm saying

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

It's surprisingly good

"Surprisingly" not "amazingly." And keep it in mind. You don't have to try it. You don't have to like it.
I don't ping this build when I'm in PuG's because look at it, most people won't understand it and /kick. But as soon as I run it... Well, I'll post pictures of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

If it's helpful and if you like it. Run it.

Moloch Vein · Sep 12, 2008, 12:15 AM // 00:15

I'm going to try to convene some simple information to you, Zodiac. Well, maybe it isn't so simple, because most people seem not to understand it.

Putting all your eggs in one basket is bad in Guild Wars, just as it is when you build any machine.

You don't want all your healing concentrated into one character. If he dies, all healing goes away. Same goes for protection, damage, shutdown, you name it. And same goes for energy management.

If adding a BiP necro is meaningful, this suggests a very serious energy deficit in the builds of the team. Either the team doesn't have an energy deficit and the BiP is useless, or it does have one, and the BiP is indispensible.

This is what makes a team with a BiP on it vulnerable and unsuitable for general PvE play, or merely inefficient.

Improvavel · Sep 12, 2008, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Putting all your eggs in one basket is bad in Guild Wars, just as it is when you build any machine.

You don't want all your healing concentrated into one character. If he dies, all healing goes away. Same goes for protection, damage, shutdown, you name it. And same goes for energy management.

If adding a BiP necro is meaningful, this suggests a very serious energy deficit in the builds of the team. Either the team doesn't have an energy deficit and the BiP is useless, or it does have one, and the BiP is indispensible.

This is what makes a team with a BiP on it vulnerable and unsuitable for general PvE play, or merely inefficient.

Exactly. Just wish I was fresh enough to have said so in as many words.

It isn't that the build is unplayable Zodiac. It is that people come to forums like these to get better knowledge of guild wars. Running a BiP isn't going to them much good.

I said in a previous thread that [Meteor Shower] isn't bad. It isn't, but its hard to justify its use, especially in a human player skill bar.

BiP is worse though - as it doesn't achieve anything in a team where the builds are solid and reliable.

Zodiac Meteor · Sep 12, 2008, 02:05 AM // 02:05

So, your saying my build it hurting the team instead of helping it? That my build is really bad?

I have a PvP guild so they don't help to much with PvE (I love GvG, RA, TA, HA Etc. I do PvE to.)
In PuG's, your not always going to get a great team build. When you get a PuG team with all solid and reliable builds is like 1 out of 100. Even at Hell's Precipice people won't have an elite. Either they have to change to a build they never played (Water Spells) or they don't know how to get an elite.

The point is, not matter how far you go, there is still chance your not going to run into the perfect team.

So, my support is bad in most (if not all) situations?
It's not meant for most situations. But still, I didn't know my build was that horrible.

Moloch Vein · Sep 12, 2008, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Well, the positive news for you is that you haven't gone far enough yet. There are a lot of things in this game you have yet to explore.

Also, no, your BiP build isn't going to "hurt" your team. As you said, when you play in bad pugs chances are their builds are going to suck astronomically, and one of the things they won't understand at all is energy management. Of course your BiP is going to help those players.

If you simply pug around, try to find groups with more physical characters. Those won't have too much trouble with energy management, and they'll also run builds that actually do damage in the later stages of the game. They can't help it; that's how physical damage skills work. Even your Rebirthing wammo with Healing Hands will do some damage.

Your best friends are Barbs, Mark of Pain, Order of Pain and Spiteful Spirit, generally speaking, if you run with that type of groups (bad physical.)

Improvavel · Sep 12, 2008, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

So, your saying my build it hurting the team instead of helping it? That my build is really bad?

I have a PvP guild so they don't help to much with PvE (I love GvG, RA, TA, HA Etc. I do PvE to.)
In PuG's, your not always going to get a great team build. When you get a PuG team with all solid and reliable builds is like 1 out of 100. Even at Hell's Precipice people won't have an elite. Either they have to change to a build they never played (Water Spells) or they don't know how to get an elite.

The point is, not matter how far you go, there is still chance your not going to run into the perfect team.

So, my support is bad in most (if not all) situations?
It's not meant for most situations. But still, I didn't know my build was that horrible.

Your build will help when your team is bad. But since you are a necro why not something like:
[Spiteful Spirit][Splinter Weapon][You Move Like a Dwarf][Enfeebling Blood][Barbs][Mark of Pain][Flesh of My Flesh]

The last skill could be something like [Necrosis], a cover hex like [Shadow of Fear] or [Reckless Haste] or if u need energy management [Signet of Lost Souls].

The question I ask is why is a BiP build a better support to the party?

BiP helps ppl spam more. And its the end of it (well I guess it can cast Protective spirit, wich is always useful).

Curse Necros help physical characters and minions kill via barbs, mark of pain and splinter weapon.

Enfeebling blood helps ur party defensive side. So does YMLD, that doubles as damage as an interrupt and also provides a window of opportunity to kill certain enemies.

So I'm not saying your BiP build is a bad BiP build. Just saying BiP is bad.

And yes it will hurt a good team more than it helps cause you don't fulfill the healer/protector role, nor the damage dealer/disrupting role, nor the defensive/offensive role.

Hugh Manatee · Sep 12, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17

In places like Urgoz/the deep, bip turns Eles from flame throwers into H-bombs, turns monks from frontline medics into full scale hospitals, ect. I used to monk down there, they'd make me take the heal party spam, without bip we'd have died. He could have other utility in the bar, an ordres/dark fury instead of the healing prayers regen to fuel ranger and warrior damage and SY! if available, it would be real nice if you're going to crank blood magic that much anyway.

Basically, in High end pve where everything is bigger, stronger and has insane energy regen, something like this kinda evens out the gap. Using it to beat early factions missions in NM ain't much, but in urgoz or the deep or somewhere similar in HM with level 28 beasties and 8-12 party members you have the room for a character that equalizes your stats with the enemy.

Improvavel · Sep 12, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

In places like Urgoz/the deep, bip turns Eles from flame throwers into H-bombs

Maybe thats why BiP is required if the killers are elementalists